Skip to main content

Author Branham On Trust, Exit Interviews And Why Employees Leave

Over the past year, 1,000 people who left an employer told author Leigh Branham the reasons for why they left.
 
Those reasons, captured in a post-exit survey, contribute greatly to the new release of the second edition of Branham's best-seller, The 7 Hidden Reasons Employees Leave.
 
 
 
The original edition was based on feedback from nearly 20,000 surveys. 
 
The updated book includes insights regarding some additional new survey questions, such as:
  • Was there a triggering event?
  • How long did it take until you actually left?
  • What could your employer have done to make you want to change your mind and stay?
  • Did you look for another job while still employed.
Eye-opening highlights from the book reveal that:
  • The cost of losing the average employee is one times their annual salary.  That means that  company with three hundred employees, an average employee salary of $35,000, and a voluntary turnover rate of 15 a year is losing $1,575,000 per year in turnover costs alone.
  • Employee turnover is not a single event; it is really a process of disengagement that can take days, weeks, months, or even years.
In the book, Branham teaches readers how to:
  • Avoid employee-job mismatches.
  • Build an environment of mutual trust and confidence.
  • Understand the emotional impact of compensation and recognition done well.
  • Leverage exit and turnover data (often from exit interviews) to increase employee retention.
 

Last week, Branham spoke to me about:
  • Trust in senior leaders
  • Exit interviews
  • The impact of e-mail and texting on employee turnover
  • What surprised him the most about the answers to the 1,000 post-exit surveys
Question:   Where would you put the current trust in senior leaders?  Is it at the lowest it's been since you've been in the business world?

Branham:   I would have to say yes, unfortunately.  When I entered the business world in the 70's, we assumed leaders were competent and trustworthy.  Even in the 80's and early '90's, they were good stewards and heroes--Lee Iacocca, Jack Welch, et. al.  But things changed during the boom years and greed took over for many.

Then came Enron, Worldcom in 2002, then the crash of 2008 exposed the depth of corruption.  It was a devastating double whammy that had the effect of disappointing everyone in the workforce while, paradoxically, causing the issue of senior leadership to start showing up on their radar as more of a factor with regard to how much discretionary effort they were willing to give (engagement). 

The consulting and survey firms, Towers Watson and Kenexa came to the same conclusion as Mark Hirschfeld and I did in our book, Re-Engage, based on our analysis of 2.1 million engagement surveys--trust in the integrity, competence, and compassion of senior leaders is now the number one factor in employee engagement, in spite of the fact that the conventional wisdom says it's all about the manager. 

Yes, it's all about the manager, but it's the senior leaders who set the tone and culture and the example for managers to follow.  Yet, the most commonly used employee survey in the world today--Gallup's 12 questions, contains not one question about senior leadership.
 
Question:  If a business can't hire/use a third-party to do the exit interviews, how best should they be done to elicit the most candid feedback from the exiting employee?
 
Branham:  First, I would say they should explore finding a way to afford it if that's the issue because the outcomes are almost always superior. That's because some employees simply will not tell any company representative the real reason they are leaving no matter how trustworthy they may seem. 

But if paying a third-party is not in the cards, they should find the most trusted person in HR to conduct the interviews, make sure they know the data collected is important, then train them in the finer points of conducting an exit interview, especially with regard to follow-up questions.  For more on this, see my appendix in The 7 Hidden Reasons  Employees Leave on exit interviewing.



Question:  When reading the 1,000 post-exit surveys that inspired the updated edition, what in those surprised you the most?

Branham:  I think the biggest surprise was how closely the new data resembled the data from Saratoga, despite the changes in the economy since the first edition came out in 2005, especially that the seven-reason themes were the same and that nine of out 10 primary reasons for leaving were push factors instead of pull factors, again exactly the same as Saratoga's data showed.
 
In fact, of the 39 possible reasons for people to choose from on our web survey (www.keepingthepeople.com), none of the 11 "pull" reasons ranked higher than number 23 on the list.

I expected senior leadership to be a major factor, but didn't expect it to be the number one reason. I didn't necessarily expect "insufficient pay" to be the number two reason, but when I consider the pay freezes and small annual pay increases that have been widespread in recent years, it's understandable.
 
Question:  How has the increased use of e-mail either helped or hindered employee turnover versus a time when employees engaged in more in-person and phone engagement compared to e-mail exchanges? 
 
Branham:  I do think e-mail and texting have depersonalized manager-employee interaction, as has the increasing trend toward the remote workforce. 

Many younger workers have admitted to actually ignoring voice messages entirely and don't return them.  I'm not saying we shouldn't use e-mail and texting.  I'm saying we should use all communications media at our disposal to:
  • check in with direct reports
  • ask how they are doing, what they need
  • ask for their ideas and really listen and take action on the good ones
  • make sure they know what's expected
  • give frequent feedback
In other words, they should manage the way the best sports coaches coach.  Face-to-face is best, but when face-to-face is not always possible, the phone is next best, then e-mail, then texting when it's urgent.  
One of the consistent reasons employees leave is they have managers who don't communicate in any of these ways.  In fact, I've seen research that 60 percent of employees don't get enough feedback and that only one in five employee accomplishments is acknowledged by managers. 

Thanks to the book publisher for sending me an advance copy of this book.

Comments

Popular posts from this blog

Six-pillar Roadmap For How To Move From Merely Surviving To Truly Mattering

  In the new book, The Mattering Effect: Creating A Life Of Meaning And Worth , podcaster and author John R. Miles reframes today’s most common struggles and empowers individuals and institutions alike to break bad habits and reclaim a sense of worth and belonging. “Organizations have spent the last decade chasing 'engagement' and 'psychological safety,' yet global productivity is stalling and 60% of employees report they do not feel valued in the places where they spend their days,” shares Miles.   He calls this “The Great Erasure”—a condition where high-achievers become highly visible to the organization while becoming invisible to themselves.   In addition, Miles argues that many of today’s most common struggles—burnout, anxiety, loneliness, and disengagement—are not personal failures or mindset problems. They are the result of unmattering: the gradual erosion of felt significance within modern systems that reward performance while overlooking presence.   Fortu...

How To Improve The Way Teams Think, Collaborate And Make Decisions Under Pressure

  “Great decisions don’t happen by accident—they happen by design,” shares Dr. Ricardo Valerdi , author of the new book, The Five-Tool Team: Bringing Out The Best In People To Make Better Decisions .  This book is not about finding perfect answers. It is about building a framework that allows you to make good decisions repeatedly, even when conditions are imperfect, information is incomplete, and outcomes are uncertain.  More specifically, Valerdi reveals a practical framework for improving the way individuals and teams think, collaborate, and make decisions under pressure.   Drawing on lessons from sports, business, engineering, and real-world experience, Valerdi shows how the most effective leaders build teams that question assumptions, analyze consequences, and make choices grounded in clarity rather than instinct or urgency.  “Writing this book has been a phenomenal journey that started in 2018 when I was a visiting professor at the United States Military Ac...

Seven Ways To Be A Collaborative Leader

Edward M. Marshall 's book,  Transforming The Way We Work -- The Power Of The Collaborative Workplace , remains relevant today, more than a decade after Marshall wrote it. Particularly useful is the book's section that teaches readers how to be a collaborative leader. Marshall says that there are  seven different, important roles and responsibilities of collaborative leaders when leading teams , and those leaders should select the appropriate style to meet the team's needs. The seven roles are : The leader as sponsor  -- You provide strategic direction, boundaries and coaching for the team. You also monitor progress and ensure integrity in the team's operating processes. The leader as facilitator  -- You ensure that meetings, team dynamics, and interpersonal relationships function effectively. You also ensure internal coordination of activities among team members. The leader as coach  -- You provide support and guidance and you serve as a sounding board. The lea...

How To Be A Tough Enough Leader

    Tomorrow brings a compelling and timely book about how tough enough you need to be as a leader to lead your team to greatness without being a jerk. The book is Tough Enough , by leadership coaches John Baird and Matt Hunter .   The authors explain that building a high-performing team requires a new form of toughness―not based on bullying and bravado, but rather pushing for exceptional results in a way that is firm, fair, and respectful.   Drawing on decades of coaching top CEOs, elite founders, and ambitious leaders, Baird and Hunter break down seven specific habits that define the strongest, most effective leaders, from being clear about the company culture to strategically unleashing emotional thunder. They set the record straight on when to prioritize understanding and empathy, when it’s time to be direct―and, most importantly, how to do both at the same time. Their no-nonsense approach gives readers the tools to calibrate their toughness and compassion in a ...

James G. Ellis Shares The Leadership Lessons Behind A Lasting Legacy

  In his new book, James G. Ellis shares the lessons he learned throughout his career as an entrepreneur, CEO, professor, mentor, and one of the nation’s most respected business school leaders. He is the former Dean of the University of Southern California Marshall School of Business.   For aspiring leaders, educators, and entrepreneurs, A Journey of Insights: Lessons In Leadership And Legacy , offers a roadmap to success grounded in real-world experience, with a focus on humility, listening, and building strong, collaborative environments. The book is both a personal memoir and a strategic guide for those aiming to leave a lasting legacy in business.   At the core of his message is the central theme that listening to voices around you throughout life is the key to success. “In essence, ears can speak louder than voices,” shares Ellis.   The book also explores pivotal moments that helped define Ellis’ understanding of leadership, including encounters with Pres...

How To Become A Catalyst CEO

Catalyst leaders are individuals who accelerate decision-making, empower teams, and spark innovation. To improve your catalyst leadership skills, you’ll want to read the new book by Constantine G. Alexandrakis , which provides a hands-on guide for building leadership teams and cultures that ignite business transformation.   The book is The Catalyst CEO: Why CEOs Can’t Lead Transformation Alone―And What The Best Do Instead . Drawing on decades of experience advising world-leading companies, Alexandrakis challenges the cult of the hero CEO and offers a powerful new paradigm on what it truly takes to make business transformation happen―and stick.   Alexandrakis defines transformation as more than change. “It’s a deliberate reinvention of how a company creates value through its people, its business model, and its place in the world.” He adds that “Real transformation depends on teams that are willing to argue clearly, and directly, while still finding a way to decide and move ...

Proven Strategies For Keeping Teams Focused During Times Of Uncertainty

  “Crisis leadership is not only about operational efficiency—it is fundamentally human-centered. Leaders who communicate openly, prioritize safety, listen empathetically, and empower teams can sustain trust, engagement, and performance, even in life-threatening circumstances.  Organizations that maintain this balance are not only surviving—they are building for the future,” explain the authors of the new book Against The Storm: How True Leaders Prevail When The World Shakes .   The authors and leadership experts  Tom Kolditz  and  Mariana Khomitska  share in their book a practical framework that can be applied across industries and roles.   “One of the primary purposes of our book is to pass along leadership tools for crisis management,” explain the authors. “Effective crisis management is fundamentally about reducing uncertainty to restore a sense of control and stability." Key strategies focusing on minimizing the effects of uncertainty a...

Leadership Lessons From Kent Taylor, Founder Of Texas Roadhouse

From cover-to-cover of Made From Scratch you’ll learn the leadership lessons of the late Kent Taylor , founder of the restaurant chain Texas Roadhouse.  In the new book, Taylor recounts how he built the restaurant chain from the ground up after being rejected more than 80 times as he pitched the idea for the business.  His approach to business was often out-of-the-box, however, his business lessons and leadership lessons from the course of his life and career are invaluable.  Here are some of my favorite leadership lessons from Kent and his book:  The best leaders stay down-to-earth and approachable.  In a bottom-up company, the leader learns from frontline people.  As soon as you make a profit, find a way to give back.  Be willing to laugh at yourself.  Become a student of your craft.  Positive reinforcement inspires much greater performance than fear ever can.  Want to get the respect of your people? Then roll up y...

A Playbook For Authentic Human Leadership

Julie Averill , the CIO behind lululemon’s rapid growth from $2 billion to $10 billion shares in her new book, Chief Impact Officer , a roadmap for executives and technology leaders navigating today's AI revolution and reveals why authentic human leadership is your competitive advantage.   Prior to lululemon, she led omni-channel and digital transformations at Nordstrom and REI, navigating system failures, crises, and the complicated work of integrating technology with business strategy at scale.   “Technology doesn’t transform companies. People do,” says Averill. “AI will amplify whatever leadership exists, strong or weak. The goal isn’t to build better workers. It’s to develop better humans who happen to do extraordinary work because you helped them become more capable, more confident, more fully themselves. That’s what this book is about.”   In the highly personal Chief Impact Officer , Averill pulls back the curtain on what happens when you try to transform a compan...

How To Master The Cycles Of Leadership: The Four Seasons

Whether you’re an aspiring leader, a newly appointed CEO, or a board member wanting to better steward your company’s performance, A CEO For All Seasons: Mastering The Cycles Of Leadership is the hands-on playbook you need – packed with practical, proven tips to help you navigate the four distinct phases of leadership.  “The journey of a CEO has a beginning, middle, and end, and the challenges leaders face early on are often far different than those midway through and near retirement, explain the authors of the book – Carolyn Dewar , Scott Keller , Vikram Malhotra, and Kurt Strovink .   “For us, the most apt analogy to describe these cycles is the four seasons of the year,” they add.  Spring : Stepping up - Preparing for the role. Summer : Transitioning into the role. Starting strong. Leading with impact. Fall : Navigating the middle years. Staying ahead. Sustaining momentum. Enhancing your learning. Future-proofing the organization. Winter : Transitioning out of the rol...